Interested readers are requested to look up the virtually verbatim record of the discussion and related documents on this book’s website: https://www.rajivmisunderstood.com/ or by scanning the QR code at p….
“The substantive discussion began with Jagmohan’s introductory summing up of the situation he encountered on taking over as Governor on 19 January 1991 and the steps he was taking to counter it. There were some interjections from RG and others, but, by and large, the Governor was allowed his say. His opening assessment was:
“Unfortunately, conditions in the Valley are very grave. It is usually said that there has been a collaopse of the administration here. In fact, it is not a collapse but a takeover of the administration…every component of the previous power structure has been taken over…no civil administration worth the name. Even the police was not obeying orders. The atmosphere was one of fear and indifference.”
He laid the blame for this state of affairs squarely on the previous Farooq Abdullah government:
“In the last two years, things had been drifting. No action had been taken. Hence the collapse and take over of the administration.”
He went on with his summary of the situation as he had found it on arrival in Srinagar on 21 January 1990:
“Even the whereabouts of IB officers were being leaked to the militants by the local police. There were SHOs receiving instructions from the terrorists…Everyone had been imprisoned in a cage of terror…I had firm intelligence that plans had been hatched by the terrorists to formalise on the 26th January the realities which already informally existed on the ground…we had intelligence reports of plans to capture Doordarshan and All India Radio. Under the guise of performing namaz – the 26th being a Friday – the plan was to burn the Indian flag before a gathering of ten lakh people and proclaim independence over the captured Doordarshan and AIR stations.”
He then described the action he had ordered “to counter this threat”:
“we imposed curfew and took other stern measures…It was because they were frustrated in their attempts that the militants planned to achieve their objectives on Pak Solidarity Day”
His next point was that “the JKLF (Jammu & Kashmir Liberation Front’s) writ ran everywhere”:
“Their flags were eveywhere. Terrorists have been converting hospitals into sanctuaries, staying there, eating there, storing arms and ammunition there. Even the doctors are in league with the terrorists”
Saying our first effort “was to avoid mass violence”, Jagmohan turned to what he clearly perceived as the root cause of the call to mass violence:
“In Srinagar, there are hunderds of mosques, fitted with loud speakers with extensions into the streets. They made an unbearable noise. They were not being used for religious purposes but to make political proclamations in extreme language, using fundamentalist expressions.”
He added:
“There were other factors too contributing to this terrible situation.”
He went on to claim:
“Gradually, we asserted ourseves. We built our administration. We dealt with the problems being caused by the Pakistanis. We knew that Maqbool Butt Day would be exploted by the miltants. We stopped trouble on that day. After we came to Srinagar, there has been substantial progress. “
The Governor then bemoaned the lack of appreciation of his actions:
“Unfortunately, the nation does not understand the gravity of the situation. Even people living in Srinagar do not understand.. the situation is very, very grave.”
It was his next assertion that caused a flare-up of interjections. He claimed:
“…. There was no investigation begun on IB and Police officers killed….
Rajiv Gandhi: Could you give us the dates on which these killings took place?
Governor: In November… December…
P L Handoo(National Conference): The first assasination was on the 2nd January in Anantnag. Let us at least be true to the admitted facts.
RG: You said investigation had not even begun…
Gov: They had begun but there was a collapse of admistration…
RG: I have written down your words. You said investigation had not even”begun”…
Gov: What I meant was that in no case had proceedings been started… we had to start from the beginning… A very large number of government servants are absenting themselves and are involved in subversive activities.
RG: What percetage of government servants are involved?
Devi Lal ( Deputy PM): He has already said there has been not a collapse but a takeover of the daministration”
The Governor then brought up the steps he had taken to deal with “a local festival, Meraaj-e-Aalam, which is just like our Dusshera”. However his comments on the action taken attracted considerable cross-talk with allegations being traded and charges hurled across the table. When the commotion died down, RG posed a question:
RG: Do they have sophisticated weapons?
Gov: In burst they can fire 60 rounds.
RG: What?!
Marwah (Advisor) clarifies: 30 round magazines. Kalashnikovs.”
The discussion then turned to the dissolution of the J&K Assembly with the Governor claiming “I have dissolved the Assembly with the aim of telling the young men that they can elect whom they want to represent them”
Mohammad Shafi Bhatt (National Conference): Why dissolve the Assembly?
Gov: Our approach is liberal.
RG: What were your reasons for dissolution?
Gov: It was a totally unrepresentative Assembly… The people did not have any confidence in them..
RG: How do you measre unrepresentativeness?
Gov: This is my Constitutional right. The Constitution empowers me to make this determination in my own discretion.
RG:…Does it mean the Governor can just dismiss (the government) just because he claims it is unrepresentative?
Gov: The Constituonal mechanisem has broken down. The proclamation vested all powers in the Governor. The Constitution required me to make this deternination in my own discretion. I was not required to consult anyone else on this..
M Farooqui (CPI(M)): …Dissolution is a politcal question. You consider it an administrative question. Before dissoving the Assembly did you consult the Prime Minister of India?
Gov: Under the J&K Constitution, I have the right to decide this without consuting anybody.
M Farooqui: Kashmir is a national problem. You are not sent here for undertaking administrative tricks. You are sent here to retrieve the situation. You must take political steps. Dissolution is not an administrative action. It is a political question. You should have consulted the Prime Minister… You have embarssed the Prime Minister.
Gov: I will explain all this to the Ministers who are here..
Farooqui: You are answerable to us too.
Gov: The Constitution requires me to take action on my own.
Farooqui: ….This is not a constitutional question. This is a political matter. You have not consulted your government. You have thus violated your function.
Saifuddin Chowdhury(CPI-M): You have acted independantly of the Central Government..
Gov: I believe this action will bring the youngsters around…
There followed several indignant interjections, including Handoo reiterating that “This is not a Constitutional mattter. This is a politucal question” and the Governor spiritedly responding that “by dissolving the Assembly, I have shown the young men that they can elect whom they want”. At this point, RG substantively intervened:
RG: You said that the Constituonal machinery had broken down. Therefore, the legislature was unrepresentative. The Constitutional machinery had broken down not because the government fell by losing its majority in the House but because the Chief Minister had resigned. The Constitutional process would have been restored by asking the Assembly to elect its leader.
Gov: The Constitution provides that this matter is to be decided not at the satisfaction of the President but of the Governor… The Constitutional machinery had broken down not because of the Chief Minister’s resignation but because of many other factors. What was needed was a new beginning. We had to wean away the youngsters from terrorism.
Biplab Dasgupta (CPI-M): No one is disputing that you have the right. But in such a politcal decision, you should have gone in for wide-ranging consultations. You should have taken into account the political perspective. You should have considered whether the actions you are taking would in fact give you the results you want or only lead to anarchy.
P Shivshankar (INC): What causes us anguish is your determination that the legislature is no longer a representative body…. that you wanted to give an opening to the youth… Now the political process has been eliminated. It is this that causes us…
RG (in Hindi): Yeh ajeeb baat hai…(This is weird talk)
Devi Lal (Deputy Prime Minister):… hai tho! (indeed, it is!)
RG: He can’t just make the determination that the Assembly is “unrepresentative”…. You say the Governor is not answerable to the Central Government. Now you say let the government Ministers explain!
P.Shivshankar: You have an absolute right to say you will share your reasons only with the Ministers – but you also say the Ministers do not know the reasons for which you dissolved the Assembly!
When the Governor claimed that by his actions he was “establishing links with the people”, he seemed to have stirred a hornet’s nest:
RG: …Don’t you realise that you are now completely isolated from the masses. Have you done the right thing? You say you have no control over the police. No control over the officers. No proper information network. And now you are completely alienating the people.
Saifuddin Chowdhary: Have you not added to their alienation? You are in splendid isolation.
A.S. Malhotra (CPI): Have you acted in accordance with the recommendations of the Sarkaria Commission ?
Saifuddin Chowdhary: He says Governors must always act in their own discretion.
Gov: The issue is this. In my judgement, at the ground level, both the parties had become irrelevant….
RG: Which two parties ? Do you mean the National Conference and the Congress ?
Gov: Yes. In the last two years, they have clearly_shown that they have no hold. The youth complained that the 1987 elections were rigged…There is also Shabbir Shah’s statement that if this government is removed we will be able to solve the problems…
The Governor then went on to explain that in his view:
The two main bodies are the Jamaat-e-Islami and the JKLF. Basically, the Jamaat-e-Islami is fundamentalist and pro-Pakistani… The JKLF is based on the catholic, eclectic, accommodating local version of Islam. They are 1ikely to fall in line with India. If we give JKLF youth the opporanity to elect their representatives, they will fall in line. We have to persuade them. I say to them, you say you must have azadi; we have already given you azadi to choose whom you want.
[derisive laughter]
I have told them, we have given you azadi. I say to them, Pakistan cannot given you azadi. That, ultimately, it is only the Indian Constitution that can give you your freedom.
The Governor then went on to his final solution:
Our aim is to crush the Jamaat-e-Islami and pro-Pakistan forces, and win over the youth element. In Kashmir, Farooq Abdullah and the Central Government action had no scope for anyone to come up.
RG: Out of 76 seats (2 are nominated), how many, in your opinion, were rigged?
Gov: I will answer that later. Let me finish. For everyone else, the normal processes were blocked. So, they took to guns. There was no stopping the guns. Now they have the moral legitimacy to use force. With a clear conscience, they can tell their people to even shoot the Chief Secretary.
Biplab Dasgupta: What is the response to your actions?
Gov: There is a response. I am doing what happened in Assam, bringing round the militant youth. I believe Shabbir will fall in line after the hardcore is pushed out by administrative action. We will demolish the Jamaat-e-Islami and Hizb-e-Islam. In my judgment, if the terrorists are arrested, we will be able to hold elections. I want to go on straight road which will reach the right end one day.
The Governor continued his tirade against Farooq and those supporting him revealing his real animus against the ex-CM :
On the 15th February, the Governor was accused of turning Kashmir into a Nazi concentration camp, compared to Halaku, threatened with an international enquiry. This was done by the former Chief Minister on the eve of the Friday on which we were expecting the biggest congregation. In these circumstances, I had to dissolve the Assembly. In the face of such inflammatory statements by the former Chief Minister, what do I do ?
PL Handoo: Dissolve the Assembly!
Gov: I am sure we can work on this line.
RG: The plan is clear. Finish the NC and Congress. Bring in the JKLF.
The Governor then turned to his rationale for favouring the JKLF and Shabbir Shah over the National Conference and the Indian National Congress. I could not help but see the incredulous astonishment on the faces of the Kashmiri veterans around the table:
Gov:The Government had been taken over by the militants. In outlying areas, it was the JKLF flag that was flying.
RG: How many seats were rigged? You were the Governor then. I was Prime Minister then. I have seen your reports. How many seats, in your view, were rigged?
Gov: Not less than 16-17. Rigging is the main grievance of the youth.
RG: This is serious matter. This is exactly what Pakistan has been saying. For the past 40 years they have been saying that our elections are rigged. We have said any plebiscite now is out of the question. Since the 50s, it has been our stand that since we have elections in Jammu & Kashmir, there is no need for a plebiscite. You were the Governor during my Prime Ministership. I have seen your reports.
The Governor says 16 seats were rigged…That means the NC-Congress alliance won a clear 52 out of 78 seats.
The Governor did not directly naswer but went to explain what other factors had led him to dissolve the Assembly:
Gov:…We dissolved the Assembly to create a new environmemt for new beginnings.
RG: Your plan of action is to pull the JKLF into the election process. What are your tools?
Gov: We will rebuild the total administrative structure so that it is able to implement political decisions. Our first priority is in rebuilding the administration.
RG: You said the administration is 100 % infiltrated.
Gov: My job is take out the fringe. First, I must rebuild the administratíve machinery. Remove fear of terror, militancy.
RG: First you destroyed the political process. Now you are destroying the administration.
P.L. Handoo’s next intervention opened another issue:
PLH: Shabbir does not belong to the JKLF.
Gov: We must make use of the catholicity of Islam. Then everyone can join the election process.
RG: The four hardcore terrorists you caught were the election agents of the MUF candidate. Tell us about the rise of the MUF (Muslim United Front). Who gave it its support? I would like to remind you of your reports. In the rise of the MUF was anyone in current government involved? Is it not true that you held the present Home Minister to be responsible for the rise of the MUF?
Gov: I didn’t.
Before this angle could be pursued further, former Law Minister, P. Shivshankar, asked a different question:
Shivshankar: You say there are large deposits of arms in different parts of the town. Can you catch these to retrieve the situation?
Gov: I cannot be 100% sure of the information given to me. But the general impression is that there are large caches of arms. There are plans to hijack planes and shoot and kill VIPs. Infiltration is serious. But the targets are now disappearing after the orders we have issued.
George Fernandes: They have a large fighting capacity? Who exactly are on their payrolls? How do we meet it?
Gov:We have reorganized the para-military forces and the intelligence network. We have modernised our fleet. They were hiding their weapons in religious places and zenanas. We have made some recoveries. Unfortunately they have many sophisticated weapons.
RG: Sophisticated bombs ?
Marwah: Yes.
Gov: We have to strike a delicate balance.
Saifuddin Chowdhary: What is the position in the villages?
Gov: They are not so strong there.
Saifuddin Chowdhary: Why not mobilize the villagers?
Gov: I have appointed various officers for Kupwara and Baramulla. One of our great achievements has been the building of a civil supplies system. Earlier, it was theterrorists who were distrbuting reliefit was the terrorists who were distributing relief.
Shivshankar: You have talked of infiltrators, terrorists, fighters: what are the numbers ?
Gov: Between 2,000 and 5,000.
RG: How many Pakistanis? How many Kashmiris?
Gov: I can’t give exact figures.
K.N. Singh (INC): What is the extent of involvement of the Afghan Mujahideen?
Gov: We have not caught any.
Biplab Dasgupta: Your plan of action can only succeed if you have a base among the people. But you don’t. That is worrying me. Second, is there not a risk of over-reacting? This is eventually a political problem. It is not a problem for muscle power. You are repeating the mistakes made in Punjab in Kashmir. That kind of action could raise the number of terrorists from 5,000 to 50,000. Is there not a danger of over-reaction?
Gov: The successof our pogramme depends on the balance we strike. My instructions are to use the minimum of force. Neither our paramilitary nor BSF are permitted to use their stenguns..
RG: The BSF does not have stenguns. They have carbines. Can we be more precise, Governor?
The discussion was then diverted to the vexed issue of banning loudspeakers in mosques:
Mohd. Shafi Butt: Have you removed loudspeakers from the mosques? Who is in charge of the searches?
Gov: This will be looked into…Now there are no loudspeakers outside the mosques. We have asked the Maulvis to remove the loudspeakers. We have issued these orders at the instance of some Maulvis who came to complain to me about the misuse of these loudspeakers for political purposes
RG: Have you considered that some of these Maulvis who have seen you might be in league with the militants and have tempted you into taking this action only to provoke trouble?
Gov: We are only telling them to please stop it
Saifuddin Chowdhary: If you are to do it through administrative action, what about political support ?
RG: He has already removed loudspeakers from the streets.
Gov: Only from certain streets. Now our orders are to remove them from other streets.
RG: Your orders are for stopping the loudspeakers at certain times.
Gov: Our orders are that loudspeakers may be used at certain times with the permission of the DM.
Biplab Dasgupta: The problem is that your action will be immediately misrepresented as interference in the affairs of the mosque.
P. Shivshankar brought the discussion back to the Governor’s political plans:
SS: You said you want to segregate the Jamaat-e-Islami and that your ploy is to induce the youth of the JKLF and to elect their own representatives. Under Section 92 of the J&K Constitution you can have Governor’s rule for six months. Is it your expectation that in six months you can hold the elections ?
Gov: The legal position is that after six months, I should again apply my mind to the situation and, if necessary, Governor’’s Rule can be extended by a further six months.
SS: What is the timeframe of your plan of action?
Gov: My plan is to restore peace to hold the elections. This is my plea to them. My assessment is that, if nothing unexpected happens, we can hold the elections after six months.
M Farooqi: You said the position in the villages is betterc. My assessment is that in the villages, the National Conference does have a role to play.
P.L. Handoo: The Governor wants to become a political leader. I wish him joy and success in what he wants to do. But he has said nothing new. Shabbir Shah has been in prison since 1983. He is the 1eader of the People’s League. After his release, he went underground. He was caught and has been jailed again. .The infiltration of trained and armed militants has been going on since 1985. Black Flag Day on every 15th August. We have had 11th February every year. It is only in your rule that things have gone into such a mess. In September 1986, you dissolved the Assembly. In November 1986, you revived it. What was the need to dissolve the suspended Assembly now?
From May 1987, we had known that terrorism exists. It is only now that we learn of a mass movement for Pakistan. You are not fighting terrorism but encouraging a mass movement for Pakistan.
You complained of infiltration of the Srinagar Station of Doordarshan. It was the Central Government’s Doordarshan that showed the militants celebrating the release of five hardcore terrorists on 13 December 1989. That was the start of the trouble.
The only thing that surprises us is that you waited 30 days to dissolve the Assembly!
I reached Srinagar on 5 February. There was total curfew everywhere. I had to go to Farooq Abdullah’s house in a police jeep. There was nothing for us to do. So I returned to Delhi. I have come back after a month. Nothing has changed. How do we make a new beginning? How to stop the people who are making this into a mass movement. There are now 14 towns in the valley under curfew. This never happened before.
RG: When I was a pilot, I used to fly here a lot and talk to the people. The people of the Valley are not like this. I was told by one of your DMs who said his area was OK but that you insisted that he should nevertheless impose a curfew in his area.
Gov: That DM did not know that we are going to undertake searches at night. He did not know that there was a hardcore terrorist hiding in his area whom we could not allow to escape.
The debate then moved to the troubling question of the exodus of the minorities:
PLH: There is an exodus of minorities taking place from Srinagar. They are even leaving distant places like Kupwara and Baramulla. Thousands of them have reached Delhi.
Gov: Now that we are asserting our authority, there is bound to be resistance.
PLH: You made a statement yesterday asking those who have left to come back to the Valley and that you have made arrangements for their safety in camps. This is totally against the traditions of our Valley. We have always been a secular people. The Kashmiri Pandits have always been protected by the Muslims.
Gov: The terrorists are looking for soft targets like the Kashmiri Pandits. We have acted on the request of the Kashmiri Pandits Association.
Mohd. Shafi Qureshi: How many have left?
Gov: 6,000 to 7000 families.
Kedar Nath Sahni (BJP): There are 14000 families registered in Geeta Bhavan alone. In addition, there are many others who are staying in private homes and have gone to distant places like Haridwar and Delhi.
RG: How many would that be in numbers?
KNS: About 80,000.
RG: How many non-Muslims are there in the Valley?
PLH: About one and a quarter lakhs.
RG: So out of one and a quarter lakhs, 80,000 have left the Valley. 70%! Why is the Governor’s information on the exodus wrong? How then can he be right about the numbers killed?
Mohd. Shafi Butt (NC) moved to a related issue dividing communities in the state:
MSB: You have got only Hindus heading your departments.
Rajiv Gandhi, howver, was not finished with the law and order situation:
RG: You said there were no processions to the UN before 21st January. To my knowledge also, there were none. Why are there suddenly such big demonstratiions? Is it the underlying assumption of your plan of action that the situation will get further aggravated befire it improves? You talk of alienation of the Police. But was it not the same J&K Police who arrested the terrorists who are now in jail? Equally, were not the intelligence agents, on the basis of whose information we caught the terrorists, also local people? How is it that within a few weeks, the same local police has become a force of rebellion?
Gov: They were not obeying orders.
RG: The five hardcore terrorists you released- who arresterd them? And who released them?
Gov: I don’t know what happemed before. I am talking only of the post-19th January scenario.
RG: I only hope you will not unilaterally dissolve Article 370!
Rajiv Gandhi next brought up the need for the delegation to meet local people:
RG: We must first decide what we are going to do. We must go into the town and meet people. I have a list of associations here (Reads them out): we would like the Governor to arrange for us to meet them.
Gov: I do not know whom you want to meet. You should have given us the information in advance. Now it is too late to make arrangements.
RG: But surely you know local leaders. You must know local associations.
Gov: I have no contact with local associations. No one has met me.
RG: Does not Government have a list of local associations?
Gov: The government is in Jammu.
RG: Can you not contact them on the phone and get the information? I am prepared to wait here the whole of tomorrow, if necessary. We cannot go back and tell the nation that we met only the Governor. If that was what we came here far, we could as well have met the Governor in Delhi. We will give you all the information we have. Surely, you know where some people are. You can arrange for us to meet them.
Gov: Not possible.
RG: Are you refusing? How much time do you need?
The deputy PM, who had already hinted that we should adjourn for lunch, then brought the meeting to an end with the immortal words:
DL: (in Hindi) Governor Sahib, Aap hamein airport thak pahunchayen tho ganimath hai! (Governor sahib, it would be a great mercy of you could reach us to the airport)